What It Takes to Build a World-Class Company Culture

Adrian McIntyre: 0:00:04

Culture. In the world of business, it is a term that is bandied about as if we all know what we're talking about. We say culture is vital to the workings of our company. We say culture eats strategy for breakfast. (We definitely don't know what that means.) But it is an interesting phenomenon, and it is also a function of communication. Culture in business. Abbie, what's on your mind?

Abbie Fink: 0:00:30

So I just got back from vacation, went on a cruise. One of my favorite ways to vacation. We had a fantastic time. And one of the things that we've been talking about since we've been home is the interactions that we had with the people on the ship, the crew, the thousands of employees that it takes to run a cruise ship. The vast majority are here for months and months at a time. They have these long, lengthy contracts. They are from all over the world, and their number one goal and their number one priority is making sure that all of us have a fantastic vacation.

Abbie Fink: 0:01:11

And that was evident from the second we got on the ship from, you know, the person at the embarkation desk when we had to show our ID to the security person at the gate to the person running the muster drill, and then all throughout the week. And it was just an interesting dynamic for me that, you know, these folks prime responsibility is to make sure we're having a good time. Even if their responsibility is cleaning the room, the bartender, the blackjack dealer, whatever that might be. If they are facing the public, their responsibility is making sure that that public is having a good time. And it is really, to me, a perfect example of, you know, living the concept of culture and not being so tied to title and job description in, you know, creating this concept. And we've talked a lot before about the, you know, employees are your best brand ambassador, and I don't think that plays out any better than it does, you know, on a cruise ship. So, you know, given that we talk a lot about culture and business and how that impacts, it felt like a really great connection and gives me just a little bit more time to reflect on my wonderful trip because, you know, there's always that letdown when you come back from a vacation. So I thought we could chat a little bit about, you know, what. What culture means. But when it lives out in that

Adrian McIntyre: 0:02:43

very public way, well, I guess it's a testament to the culture of the cruise line you were on that you pine for it rather than come home and want to complain about everything to everyone. Culture can be very powerful. You know, I'll just do one of my little minor academic spiels here for a second. I trained as a cultural anthropologist and for many years the academic discipline of cultural anthropology had culture as its defining object.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:03:17

Anthropologists are the people who study culture. But there was never widespread agreement about what that meant about what culture is. And decades ago, two American anthropologists, Kroeber, whose name was on the building I was studying in, and Kluckhohn, wrote a book called Culture, in which they tried to compile all the definitions of the term. And there were well over a hundred. And it turns out that what you think culture is has a lot to say about what you're then going to do, whether you're going to study it or engage with it, practice it, whatever.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:03:55

And some of the most compelling text takes on this, I think, are the ones that situate culture precisely as a phenomenon of language and look at cultural practices as a set of linguistic practices. What we say to each other, the stories we invoke, the myths that define our past, present and future, et cetera. So in a company, I think it's useful to be aware of this, not because you're now going to do some academic research that would be as useless as it was when I was doing it, but because it points you in a direction.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:04:30

If you want to do culture work at your organization, you don't just write a new manifesto and pin it to the wall in the break room. You have to look at the actual everyday communication of your people with each other, with your clients or customers, and profoundly, I think, with themselves, about themselves and about you and about the company. There's a lot there. And impacting it takes some sensitivity to what the phenomenon actually is. So I'll get off the soapbox here. What are your thoughts on that?

Abbie Fink: 0:05:07

Well, and I 100% agree. And I think what's so interesting in that is the statement you made about we write the mission statement, the manifesto, we hang it on the wall and ta da, we have culture in our workplace. And oftentimes that is a top down directive, right? The boss, the CEO, the department manager says here's what we are and you all are going to be that. Well, that's an impossible task. I mean, you can't embody a culture or a mission statement if the culture, the feeling, doesn't exist.

Abbie Fink: 0:05:39

And so, you know, the demonstration of what culture means, I think is really where this is. This really becomes more than just the words that we say. It's in our actions and how, how we embrace what that means and how it lives out every single day. And you know, the ability to Create an atmosphere where your employees or your stakeholders, your employees, your team and your customers, your clients feel that is, to me, a demonstration that you're doing culture correctly.

Abbie Fink: 0:06:17

You know, not every experience with every business is going to be a good one. I mean, there were certainly things that happened on our trip that we, you know, we weren't 100% perfect, but it was more about the culmination of all those activities that we experienced, all the positive things that said, well, that was. Might have just been a bad day. That person might have woke up with a headache and they're not feeling so great today.

Abbie Fink: 0:06:40

Rather than blaming the entire process or blaming the, you know, the cruise line or whatever it is, it was just sort of. It was okay that they were having a bad moment because the rest of the experience was such a good one. And to me, the, you know, as a. As a leader of an organization, as someone who is responsible for creating culture within the workplace, it's incumbent upon us to not just put these words out there. We have to make the action happen, and we have to show this to all those individuals that are going to interact with us.

Abbie Fink: 0:07:16

The best case scenario is when our clients, our prospective clients, comment on whatever they perceive our culture to be. You look like you're having such a good time. I saw your pictures on Facebook, and your team, you know, looks like they're enjoying each other or what a great fill in the blank. That becomes, to me, maybe even more so important than the actual work that we're proposing we want to do for someone is that they can look at us and see us as an organization, as a group of individuals, that they want to be a part of their organization as well. Because we evoke this feeling, this sense that we are not just professionals and understand what we do and do it well, but we're the kind of people you want to be around to do this work as well. And that, to me, is a real demonstration of what culture can be.

Abbie Fink: 0:08:11

You know, we. It. It is inevitable. This is probably my 20, 25th cruise. I have no idea. I lost track. But inevitably, conversation would be. It would be really fun to work on a cruise ship. You know, wouldn't it be great if we could work on a cruise ship? And the reason we say that is, obviously, we're having fun as vacationers, but we look around and we see what or what we perceive to be the staff having fun doing their jobs. And wouldn't it be fun to be a part of that? I think that's a pretty great compliment for any organization. That people want to be a part of it because it looks like you are having fun.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:08:45

Yeah. And this isn't where most people might immediately go in their minds. Most leaders might not think about this, but conversations around employer branding are becoming increasingly prevalent. And essentially what people are talking about is what does our company's culture, our brand, as expressed in who we are and what we do, I. E. Our culture, how does that communicate to the talent we would like to attract?

Adrian McIntyre: 0:09:11

And so this is not only an issue about customer experience, which of course ties to loyalty, ties to word of mouth marketing, ties to all kinds of really good things and prevents lots of really bad things, but it's also about the kind of people who you can inspire because they want to come be with the people on your team. And it just reminds me so much of how much richness and complexity there is in our human experience.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:09:40

And sometimes because of the pressures of the day and management and administrative practices that are not particularly rewarding or enriching, there's stuff that we gotta do. We can sometimes forget that this is a group of people working together, presumably for a common cause, and if not, that would be a first place to intervene. But that people, all people, are at their best when they feel inspired and motivated to contribute, when they feel like they belong, when they have stories they can share with others that also inspire others, when they get the kind of positive feedback that any one of those employees on the ship must get. When somebody says, it looks like you guys are having a really good time working here, whatever.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:10:31

Underneath all of that is something else that we talk about that can be a little bit of a slippery concept, and that is identity. You want people to be able to associate themselves with this cultural identity that you are creating and nurturing on the team. Fundamentally, it comes down to something like, people like us do things like this and oh, I'm a person like that. This is really great. I'm happy to be here. I'm included, I belong.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:11:00

And of course, this gets into complex conversations about diversity, belonging. You can't have belonging if you don't have a sense of equality and equity and full participation, if you don't have a leadership that listens and leads by example. Like, there's just so many different directions that you could go with. This culture really does open up, I think some of the most vital conversations leaders need to have with themselves and their teams about who do we want to be and how will people know and what does it look like when we're enacting these values that define who we are, et cetera, et cetera. There's. And the amount of time spent on this in most organizations is so small, if they do anything about it at all, you know, they're more interested in the, you know, the crisis communication plan that will prevent the disaster from spiraling out of control than they are in working with the people who would prevent the crisis from happening in the first place. So why is that?

Abbie Fink: 0:12:02

Yeah, well, and if I knew that. But I think, you know, it. It's. I think partially it is, you know, the. A. A business owner, a leader is, you know, in their mind and not wrong, of course, is that their, their number one responsibility is making sure the business is successful and that it is doing what it is intended to do, whatever that business model is. And yes, we recognize that our team, our employees, are critical to the success of our business. We know that. But we oftentimes, and I don't think this is necessarily intentional, is. It becomes an afterthought. And when we start to think about culture, we think about things like casual Fridays or bring your dog to work or we're going to have the holiday party, whatever, and we think of an activity as opposed to sort of this, this overlay of what culture actually means. Yes, those things are part of culture, but they are not culture.

Abbie Fink: 0:13:08

Culture is to me is more of. This is more of a feeling. It's a little bit harder to define. It's demonstrated in these actions. And no amount of parties and summer Fridays are going to change your culture. And unless you are starting to live out those actions. And you mentioned earlier about kind of recruitment and people want to work for organizations that demonstrate this. And that was, again, the conversations are sort of similar. Each time we go on these trips, we'll spend a little bit of time talking with someone that works on the staff, and they are on a contract.

Abbie Fink: 0:13:49

They're there for anywhere. 3 months, 6 months, 9 months, no days off, because each, you know, one cruise will end, the next one starts four hours later. It's a constant. Why would you work like that? Why would you want to work in an environment where you don't get time off, that you're far away from your family, you're doing the same thing every single day, 12 hours a day, seven days a week. And they look at you kind of like, well, why wouldn't you want to do that?

Abbie Fink: 0:14:14

Like, this is a fun place to work. You know, we get to interact with people like yourselves. We have, you know, we have great teammates, whatever their, their thing is, and they're earning A living, and they're contributing to their fame. I mean, they have all the things. And you're like, okay, that's exactly why you would do what you do and why all of us work really hard because we're enjoying it. We know it's for the good.

Abbie Fink: 0:14:35

And so there's. But if you pay attention to it, you can make a distinction between someone who is living out the culture of that organization that is demonstrating whatever it is that has been directed, and someone who is not. I mean, there are clearly people that are, you know, the room attendants that are happy and enjoying their work and like the interaction and are happy to, you know, call me by name every time they see me in the hallway. And then there's the others that are still doing a really good job and cleaning the room and taking care of everything, but don't want to do that interaction, does it make them better or worse?

Abbie Fink: 0:15:16

It's just a different way of living out that culture. And I think if we think about this in a business perspective, in a business development perspective, and back to employees as our brand ambassadors, this empowerment that we're creating, this ability to give our team members responsibility for the job that they have been hired to do, but also a deeper understanding that that is just part of what they're responsible for doing, that every interaction they have with each other and with their clients or customers is moving the business forward.

Abbie Fink: 0:15:59

And wherever you happen to be in the business, whatever your job responsibilities are, the idea that you can be the difference between a good and bad experience for someone is a very powerful responsibility. And as business owners and managers, I feel we should be capitalizing on that concept and creating a sense of culture and a feeling of responsibility that no matter what I'm supposed to be doing each and every day, no matter what I'm being paid to do, ultimately I am there to help our customers. I am there to help my fellow employees. And wherever that means, however that plays out, creates that sense of culture, creates a sense of camaraderie, and allows us all to be working towards the same goal, which is the better of the organization.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:16:59

One question I think leaders often have about this is, if I aspire to elevate the culture, get people more aligned with how leadership sees who we are and the vision of the future and so on, like, what. What do we actually do about it? And one of the things I think is critically important when I'm doing communication workshops on this exact topic with folks is you've got to find stories that embody the values or the message that you want to communicate. Because leadership lessons can't ... They don't stick as just a lesson told: “we do it like this,” or “this is what is important to us.” When there are stories that can be shared, that carry the lesson within the story, people can not only get it, they can repeat it. And this is one of the ways that cultures work, is they educate and inform their own members on an ongoing basis about this question of what matters to us and how we do things around here and who we are and what we believe and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So thinking about the sort of humble leadership lessons that can be communicated with some personal storytelling, finding anecdotes that are not about bragging about how great things are, but about showing what it looks like in practice. And sometimes that means showing what it looks like when things break down, when there's a failure. You know, values only sometimes reveal themselves really, when the choice is hard. But having a set of those kind of leadership stories that are repeated and shared, you know, I've certainly seen inside a number of organizations where that was the mechanism that allowed that culture to thrive was it had a vehicle, and that vehicle was Story.

Abbie Fink: 0:18:45

It doesn't have to be a complicated issue either. It doesn't have to be a complicated story. Right. It is simply just a way to interact and engage with your team, with your clients, with your prospects. You know, that this, this the storytelling idea. And it really is, you know, it's. It can be as simple as addressing someone by their name. When you, you know, you see them and remember something about them that you learned before. If they told you something in a previous experience, if you ask a question, listen to the answer. So you, instead of thinking about moving along to the next thing, people, people react to that.

Abbie Fink: 0:19:25

I remember a few several years ago, one of our team members was. Said something and it struck me, and I do my best to remember this, but we were doing a round robin introduction. This is so and so. This is so and so. And we said, and this is Deb. We work together. And she mentioned to me several weeks after that interaction that I'm her boss, but I didn't introduce myself that way. And she said it really changed something for her that she saw how we believed with our team that we were colleagues and coworkers. And yes, there is a hierarchy to the extent that there needs to be in any business, but in this setting, we were co workers, you know, and I thought, well, if I can, if I can do that with that simple change in my language and the way that I introduce somebody and change the way she thinks about the work environment, then I have done my job in creating a very small piece of our culture.

Abbie Fink: 0:20:29

And it wasn't planned. I didn't do it on purpose. It just is how I thought about it. And so to me, you know, culture is one of those things that is lived out, it's demonstrated, it becomes a natural part of what we do. It doesn't prevent bad things from happening, it just allows us to react to them differently. It creates a sense of belonging. It creates a commitment to that mission statement that's written on the wall. And it gives every interaction an opportunity to be who we are as an organization and not just what, you know, we state. This is what we do, but this is who we are.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:21:15

Thanks for listening to this episode of Copper State of Mind. If you enjoyed the conversation, please share it with a colleague who might also find this podcast valuable. It's easy to do, just click the Share button in the app you're listening to now to pass it along. You can also follow Copper State of Mind in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast app. We publish new episodes every other Friday.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:21:41

Copper State of Mind is brought to you by HMA Public Relations, the oldest continuously operating PR firm in Arizona. The show is recorded and produced by the team at Speed of Story, a B2B communications firm in Phoenix, and distributed by PHX.FM, the leading independent B2B podcast network in Arizona. For all of us here at Speed of story and PHX.FM, I'm Adrian McIntyre. Thanks for listening and for sharing the show with others if you choose to do so. We hope you'll join us again for another episode of Copper State of Mind.