AI Safety for Kids and Families with Ilana Lowery of Common Sense Media

Adrian McIntyre: 0:00:04

AI is absolutely everywhere. We talk about it a lot on this program through the lens of PR, communications, and business — what these innovations mean, what are their pros and cons, what should owners and communicators be thinking about this very rapidly evolving technology. And there's a dimension of that that we haven't talked about, but it impacts, I think, all of us and society and the future. It's unfortunate that child safety lags behind a lot of innovations, whether it's in toy making or computers or social media, it takes a while for the adults in the room, as it were, to really begin to think critically and carefully about some of the other dimensions and some of the dark sides and negative consequences of things. Abbie, what's on your mind?

Abbie Fink: 0:00:55

You know, when I first heard this concept of AI, I was sitting next to the director of library services at a school district, and he was talking about this artificial intelligence, and he was showing me how I could look things up and how I could prompt something to tell me something, and I could create photos and things in this, this application. And it freaked me out. And I'm like, how in the world are you even thinking about this when it comes to school?

Abbie Fink: 0:01:28

I mean, this sounds like it's ripe for kids to, you know, to go rogue, to cheat, to do all sorts of things. And he reminded me that those of us of a certain age remember going to the library and going to the card catalog and pulling out the Dewey Decimal System card and going to find the book that we needed for research. And then we were to create our own words using words that were already available to us.

Abbie Fink: 0:01:55

And so he said, this is what AI is going to be in terms of education and with students is. It is just the technology that's available to them, but we have to help them understand what it means to have this very powerful tool. And as you said, we have been talking a lot about AI as it relates to business and how empowering these new technologies can be, but there's also responsibility in all of that.

Abbie Fink: 0:02:20

And with these technologies, concerns both from a professional perspective, and I think more so when we're talking about young people's access to it, privacy, safety, you know, mental health, being smart about what you're seeing and using this for. And so when the information came across regarding Common Sense media and what they're doing, which they're doing a lot in terms of safety for kids in the online world, but they're launching a Youth AI Safety Institute.

Abbie Fink: 0:02:54

And it struck me that this is an area that we really, even if we are not specifically targeting young people in any of our marketing efforts. We have to understand how AI is impacting our kids today. So I was thrilled to invite my friend Ilana Lowry to join us today with the Common Sense Media and to talk a little bit about the Institute and what it's doing. So welcome back because you have been on our program before. First, you know, give us a little bit of an overview on Common Sense Media and then what is driving this effort around AI in particular.

Ilana Lowery: 0:03:33

Well, thanks, Abbie, I appreciate that, and thank you for having me back. Common Sense Media is the leading tech and AI safety organization for kids and families. We've been around for 25 years, almost 25 years, and this is our absolute mission. We rate, we educate, we advocate, we like to say that we rate, we educate, we advocate, but it's all to protect and to prepare kids for their world online.

Ilana Lowery: 0:04:05

So our ratings, research and resources reach 150 million, at least 150 million users globally over a million and a half years, more than 100,000 schools worldwide. So we are global, but we are also very local. I'm here in Arizona. We do quite a lot of work here in the state. And some of the work doing right now, as you mentioned, is around AI. And we know that AI is rapidly how people learn, but how we learn, how we create and connect.

Ilana Lowery: 0:04:46

And so our focus is really on making sure that that innovation serves children's well being privacy, which we'll talk about and their development. So we kind of work at the intersection of education, policy and product design to promote AI literacy and really responsible implementation of AI in schools, and most importantly, the guardrails that protect these students while still unlocking all of this opportunity.

Ilana Lowery: 0:05:19

We know at this moment, this is the moment we are seeing profound technological change. But our role at Common Sense is simple, even though it's urgent. We want to help adults guide their children with confidence. We want to help kids build critical thinking and ethical awareness, which is again, something that we'll talk about, I'm sure, and really help the technology ecosystem design, as you said, Adrian, with children in mind from the very beginning.

Ilana Lowery: 0:05:56

You asked about the institute. At the institute, which is under the Common Sense umbrella, we're going to be combining our already very rigorous research and risk assessments around AI tools. So we're going to combine that research, we're going to combine some clear standards, independent evaluation, and that's all to ensure that AI systems and developers are designing with childhood development in mind. So we're going to set safety standards for AI products In, you know, across the board, we're going to independently, and that's very important. We're going to independently test AI products against those standards, and then we're going to, you know, publish those results, you know, just like we have with our ratings and reviews of media for almost 25 years. And so in addition, we'll do more research about how youth are using AI tools, how it's impacting them, and then, of course, communicate all of this in ways that are understandable and helpful to parents and to educators, because, you know, that's not happening right now. And most importantly, encourage the tech industry to make safer AI. So, yeah, so that, that's an overview of Common Sense, an overview of the Institute...

Adrian McIntyre: 0:07:23

Ilana, before we get into the AI-specific stuff, I wanted to tell you this before we started recording and forgot, but our listeners might be interested as well. It's now gotten to the point where my kids, who are 11 and 14, come to one of us and ask, “could you please look this up on Common Sense Media and see if it's okay for us to watch?” Because that library of ratings and reviews of movies and TV shows and books, with comments from parents and kids, as well as a little editorial overlay, it's just incredibly useful. So I just wanted to provide that little fun bit of local color. The kids are asking us to check it out.

Ilana Lowery: 0:07:58

Yeah, we've heard from, from some parents that common sense has been used as a verb. You know, can we, “can we common sense this?” You know, that kind of thing. If they find a movie that they want to see, if it's age appropriate, if it's, if the content is appropriate. So, yeah, we've been doing that for a very long time. This is an extension of that. Just like you were saying, kids watch movies, we have a screen time issue.

Ilana Lowery: 0:08:23

They're on TV, they're watching TV, they're watching their iPads and YouTube. So when we talk about AI, the question really isn't whether kids are going to use it, whether students are going to use AI. They're already using it. And so the question really is, and Abbie, you mentioned this is, you know, how do we help them use it thoughtfully? And as I mentioned, how do we help them use it ethically? How do we teach them about the ethics around AI and then confidently. Right. So it's really about teaching them not just AI literacy, but eventually AI fluency, which is the next step.

Ilana Lowery: 0:09:06

So, yeah, I mean, it's, it's everywhere. And you know, we've done research more than half of American teenagers now regularly chat with AI companions. Unfortunately, about a third of these kids that we surveyed, they say their conversations with AI are really just as satisfying as, or more satisfying as talking with real life friends. And we know that that's a problem. Socialization is, is so important for young people. These are things that we need to address. And AI safety has really kind of been outsourced to parents and to teachers, but they don't have the information they need to do the best job they can to help their kids.

Abbie Fink: 0:09:52

That's been kind of the common denominator across technology all along was the advice to, to parents was put the computer in the common area so you could see what your child was looking at online. And then, you know, it's, and it's kind of been that. But if we are not the global we, if we are not armed with a deeper understanding of what is happening there, it doesn't matter where the laptop is or where the phone is, if we don't understand what they're doing with it.

Abbie Fink: 0:10:23

We were not prepared for the impact that social media was going to have. We, it just came into us, we used it personally, it became part of our business world and it's just, it's there and we didn't have a full understanding of the depth of what that could do. This gives us a bit of a reset opportunity. We understand it maybe a little bit better and I'd like to start maybe at the top line here and then kind of work our way through. So at some level, you know, the technology companies who are creating this access and are giving, giving us these tools need to partner in this effort to be smart and helping us protect not just young users, but any user truly.

Abbie Fink: 0:11:07

But in what you are doing at the institute in general. But what role should the technologies companies be playing? Do they have a responsibility in protecting the young users when it comes to these tools and giving access to where do they fit into this effort and should they fit into this effort?

Ilana Lowery: 0:11:30

They absolutely should fit into this effort and that's a lot of why we're doing what we're doing. So there is an urgent need for responsible AI design. You talked about how this is a reset. AI is kind of like the whole social media experiment on steroids. Right. So responsible design, governance, which is why we advocate, as a nonprofit organization, we do a lot of advocating both at the federal and state level for legislation around AI safety and technology safety in general, but AI safety and regulations that really prioritize children's well-being and their development and their rights, right? So the industry needs to be accountable for that. Tech companies really must think about kids’ rights and their well-being when they're designing a product from the very beginning.

Ilana Lowery: 0:12:30

And so we want AI companies to learn that lesson of social media that you just talked about and compete on safety and not how fast can they rise to the top, how fast can they get kids addicted to screens and that kind of thing. So you know, of course the goal is a world where AI companies, you know, they race to the top on youth safety because the market demands it. And if you think about it, you know, and we're going to set standards that will define what makes AI unsafe for kids, such as encouraging suicide, offering dangerous advice, fostering, you know, emotional dependency, and hindering, you know, cognitive development, which is a big piece of this.

Ilana Lowery: 0:13:13

And so think about and, and so what we're using at the institute as an example of this is, you know, you wouldn't let your kid get in a car that hadn't been crash tested. So why are we letting our kids use AI when it hasn't been tested for safety? So you know, we know that crash test dummies make our cars safer, right? Seat belts make our car safer. Common sense media, you know, what we want to do with our, with this institute is to make our kids safer. And so just think about all the ways we do that.

Ilana Lowery: 0:13:49

You know, we, we test pediatric drugs and medical devices. We test kids tools and art. They're not their tools but their toys, their toothbrushes, their pajamas, right? So it's time that we test AI. This is a product, you know, that teens are using, that young kids are using and really that parents fear the most. So this is where industry comes in, this is where business comes in.

Ilana Lowery: 0:14:16

We know it works, right? We, it, it's happened with all the industries I mentioned, Consumer Product Safety Commission, Highway Safety, you know, all of these organizations have, you know, had to make their products safe and you know, examples like, you know, the, I mentioned the Consumer Product Safety Commission and they test fire resistance of pajamas for kids, right? So one of the stats that we talk about is that child clothing related fire dust in the United States plunge from one a week to two per year.

Ilana Lowery: 0:14:53

So there it works, we know that it works. And so industry absolutely needs to be held accountable and they need to be looking at this as their business model needs to be racing to the top, being the best because their safety is the best.

Abbie Fink: 0:15:12

And how is that being received? I mean, are you, are you getting cooperation and I mean, I would hope.

Ilana Lowery: 0:15:18

Yeah.

Abbie Fink: 0:15:19

From a larger understanding that that that would matter to companies for their own longevity, for them being the resource of choice. You know, there's lots of options out there. It would make sense to be the one that is, you know, top of mind, because these standards are being met just as you have described. You know, and maybe it's an evolution over time that we have come to expect seat belts in our cars and all the other things that are common now that this becomes common practice. As Adrian said, we checked this movie because now your standards have been set and understood. It's just a matter of time now before it hits these types of technologies as well.

Ilana Lowery: 0:16:10

Yeah. So, I mean, the Institute is pretty new, and we are certainly hoping that we get the cooperation from the tech industry. We know there'll be pushback. I mean, there's always pushback. Doesn't matter what it is. I mean, think about the warning labels on cigarettes and whatnot. I mean, there's always going to be pushback, and it's going to be pushback from those people who are in it to make money.

Ilana Lowery: 0:16:41

And as we've seen with technology writ large, we know who the big players are. We know how much money their companies are making. Are they going to be excited about the fact that we're going to be setting standards and then, you know, and then looking at their tools with a critical eye? Probably not, but I think there will be some that understand the value and actually understand. And of course, you know, this understand, you know, the.

Ilana Lowery: 0:17:14

The best way to have somebody or the best way to get somebody to use your product or to use your service is to be the best. And if the general population is looking specifically for safety, then the only way you can be the best at that is if you are the safest. So we. We will see as we move forward as we design the standard or as we create the standards, as we start looking at. I mean, we've already been doing. For the last three years, we've already been doing risk assessments around AI tools. And so people can get those assessments much, much like our movie reviews, but they can get those assessments right now on our website. And so we've already been doing this. We are just taking it to the next level. And we hope that. We hope that the tech company and the tech industry gets on board.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:18:06

Well, this is where I have to say, you know, a little bit of realpolitik, a little reality check is. Is so important because everything you're saying is 100% correct. And all of those examples that you gave came from eras of functioning government regulatory apparatus under a variety of different administrations. This is not a red team versus blue team issue. It hasn't been anyway in the past. But under the current administration we're seeing the rolling back of so many of those consumer protections. And it just reminds, I don't think that means this is hopeless.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:18:42

You know, there was a recent attempt to introduce legislation around AI regulation. It was then pulled back. I think the appetite for this is uneven for obvious reasons, meaning the profit motive tends to dominate in this area. But I think to also earlier examples of genuine ground up consumer advocacy led by figures like a Ralph Nader who's unsafe at any speed programming really had people start to question automobile safety.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:19:11

And so the real pressure in this case may not come. You know, although it's nice to see the, the Pope weighing in on this issue. I mean people taking this very, very serious. People are taking this very seriously. That's good. I think the real pressure needs to come. Much as we talk about in the, in the media literacy category from educating and informing consumers, parents, educators and even the young people themselves so that they are demanding. That's, that's where I hear the real opportunity of what you're saying. I can feel a little bit jaded and cynical about the prospect of any real regulatory apparatus even though, and I think this is an important argument to be made. I'll end with this. I think there's a very compelling argument to be made about the competitiveness and smart business sense of good regulation.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:20:04

Especially if you compare our national interests vis a vis things that are happening in China, for example, where regulation is, is much higher. But the people's belief in the safety of AI is also significantly higher to a multiple of like 6 or 7 times higher. In part because they believe their government's watching out for them. It's going to protect their jobs, it's going to protect their families, it's going to protect their things. It's much, much lower, especially among young people. Confidence in AI is much lower here. So there's an opportunity to create those smart users, smart consumers and really a demand from the masses for better, safer products. And that's where I'm excited to see how this unfolds.

Ilana Lowery: 0:20:45

Yeah, absolutely. I mean we. So a couple of things to unpack here. So that's. We're going ahead and doing this whether the federal government, you know, cares or not or wants us to or not. This is not about. Yeah, I mean yes, we will still advocate and there are states. There are states like New York and California who. Absolutely. And you know, I mean, obviously, while child safety in any form should not be a political issue, you know, obviously California and New York are not red states. Right. And so they're pushing forward with their own legislation, with their own regulation.

Ilana Lowery: 0:21:27

We're also seeing schools and school districts around the country. I think we're up to almost half of school districts around the country who now have AI guidance and AI policies that they're using within, within their ecosystem. And so, and you know, you're right. This is not going to be something that necessarily gets changed or fixed soon. It will not get changed or fixed because there will be federal regulation.

Ilana Lowery: 0:22:00

We have the same technology legislation on the books that we had 30 years ago. So if you think about the changes that we have seen in technology and the changes that we have seen, when we talk about how technology is being used and what the risks are and all of that, there still has been no change to the legislation. So we are, you know, we're pushing ahead. We're going to be setting the standards, we're going to be rating the, the, the apps and the, and the tools, and then we're going to put it out there for parents and teachers and others to see. So that there is, I don't know, I hate, dare I say, shaming of companies that are just getting it wrong. Right? I mean, like, we see it a lot and, you know, we'll see what happens. But this is too important of an issue to just let it evolve by itself with no guardrails and nobody paying attention.

Adrian McIntyre: 0:23:09

Thanks for listening to this episode of Copper State of Mind. If you enjoyed the conversation, please share it with a colleague who might also find this podcast valuable. It's easy to do. Just click the “Share” button in the app you're listening to now to pass it along. You can also follow Copper State of Mind in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any other podcast app. We publish new episodes every other Friday. Copper State of Mind is brought to you by HMA Public Relations, the oldest continuously operating PR firm in Arizona. The show is recorded and produced by the team at Speed of Story, a B2B communications firm in Phoenix, and distributed by PHX.FM, the leading independent B2B podcast network in Arizona. For all of us here at Speed of Story and PHX.FM, I'm Adrian McIntyre. Thanks for listening and for sharing the show with others, if you choose to do so, we hope you'll join us again for another episode of Copper State of Mind.